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Old 09-19-2007, 07:11 PM
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But if it means the end of the American Empire, that would be a very very good thing.
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Old 09-19-2007, 07:41 PM
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It's never a good thing to see a nation fail but 'diminished influence' is something that cannot be bad for the rest of the world.

I believe that following WWII, the United States has done far more damage to the Developing World than the Soviet Union or anyone else for that matter.
they basically setup a system of economic colonialism based on profit and monetary enslavement. it was a brilliant idea and probably the brainchild of Robert McNamara while he was at the World Bank. smart fella.

in a way, all of this reminds me of how the USSR collapsed in the early '90's. their economic system could not withstand the arms race with the US during the Cold War, and the ruble collapsed.

if the dollar does the same and the US still owes China a ton of money, how will this be repaid?

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Old 09-19-2007, 11:58 PM
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they basically setup a system of economic colonialism based on profit and monetary enslavement. it was a brilliant idea and probably the brainchild of Robert McNamara while he was at the World Bank. smart fella.

in a way, all of this reminds me of how the USSR collapsed in the early '90's. their economic system could not withstand the arms race with the US during the Cold War, and the ruble collapsed.

if the dollar does the same and the US still owes China a ton of money, how will this be repaid?
^ Which operated alongside the more direct neo-colonialist approach in which national governments were subverted and puppets installed (like Marcos in the Philippines or Suharto in Indonesia).

If the dollar collapses, the dollar will also bounce back but maybe not to its previous levels.

It will probably bring about social and political change - but what kind of change? A lurch to the Far Right? Isolationism? More military adventurism? Brinkmanship with China and Russia? Withdrawal of overseas-based US forces? Or an invasion of Iran to seize the oilfields?

Perhaps the currency adjustment, if it doesn't cause the sky to fall down on everyone's head, will bring about a massive redistribution of wealth in China's favour... but then what? A fire sale of US assets?
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Old 09-20-2007, 12:03 AM
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if the dollar does the same and the US still owes China a ton of money, how will this be repaid?
I guess one scenario which could materialise is a fire sale of US assets with all the good stuff ending up in Chinese hands but somehow I don't think so.

The Chinese will tread cautiously, not wanting to upset the apple cart and to avoid prompting the White House into doing some really really foolish.

The Chinese are not going to foreclose on the debt and kick America off the property, like the banks do. They have too much to lose also. But they will want something. They will want a larger piece of the pie which what they are entitled to anyway. And the days of the US calling the shots and getting fat on other people's money will be gone.
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Old 09-20-2007, 10:42 AM
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I guess one scenario which could materialise is a fire sale of US assets with all the good stuff ending up in Chinese hands but somehow I don't think so.

The Chinese will tread cautiously, not wanting to upset the apple cart and to avoid prompting the White House into doing some really really foolish.

The Chinese are not going to foreclose on the debt and kick America off the property, like the banks do. They have too much to lose also. But they will want something. They will want a larger piece of the pie which what they are entitled to anyway. And the days of the US calling the shots and getting fat on other people's money will be gone.
i think you're right: China will defiintely play its cards wisely.

here's a scenario. USD gets as low as .43 against the euro, which is almost half of what it is now. wars are still going on and fears of a Great-er depression are funneled through the airwaves. "The Empire has Fallen" says the windpipes. then the financial gurus at the Treasury Dept. and the Fed propose the introduction of a new currency based on a new exchange rate to pay off debts backed by the potential prosperity of a North American Union.

could happen.
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Old 09-20-2007, 03:01 PM
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Let´s lay it out and strategize, shall we?

Well, it´s good to see this thread back. I´ve been on the road down here in Brazil, and WOW. I mean, WOW. I don´t mean WOW about Brazil, although I can say that too, but I mean HOLEE MOLEE regarding what we´re going to have happen next. By the way, Brazil´s economic and social economic class situation is what I see as what the USA is going to look like in the near future. In other words, you´re going to have a rich class, probably 5% of the population, and the rest being the following: miserable, poor, and poor middle class.

OK, this information that I´m going to list for you is part of a brain storm that I do to plot out my strategy for the future, and how to prepare for it. This is a small part. Consider this as part of a "hedge" against what´s going to come up.

Facts

- subprime mortgages make up 10-25% of the american housing market for loans
- There are more than a million homes in excess housing inventory nationwide... let´s not get into world wide!
- 40-50% of the loans are refinanced homes by the american consumer, with 50-75% of these being part of the faulty/bad loan problem!
- Most pension funds, mony market funds, mutual funds, etc bought into the trade of these loans through banks, mortgage companies, etc. They are now incurring heavy losses because of this, much of which we won´t really know until the accounting is complete.
- Most hedge funds also bought into the trade of these loans
- The derivatives bubble is 770 trillion. In other words, over 20 times the gross global product
- Much of these derivatives, are partly bets made within the mortgage industry.
- When LCTM collapsed, they had 1.4 trillion. The Federal reserve stepped in with some big lenders to bail them out. If they hadn´t stepped in to do so, the markets would´ve had to absorb a loss of 80 billion, at least. So, how the hell does the world deal with a 770 trillion dollar black hole?!
- There are now more mutual funds on the market, than there are real companies producing goods and services.
- The baby boom generation, which comprises 70% of the NYSE investment, either individually or through various investment vehicles, also make up most of the people who bought homes for investment via regular mortgages. In order to pay back the loans, they will have to liquidate stocks, bonds, notes, gold, silver, anything. I see especially, most especially the upper middle, and middle middle class about to be wiped out.

My Conclusions

Many mutual funds, pension, and other retirement vehicles will collapse, contract, incur heavy losses due to the middle class, from upper middle to middle middle, losing 80% or more of their investments. Institutional buyers make up the bulk of stock/bond purchasing. An enormous contraction of the NYSE, FTSE, DOW 100, and NASDAQ is about to happen.

More notes:

- 2 weeks ago, for the first time in the last 30 years of history, a B-52 bomber flew over the USA armed with 6 live nuclear cruise missles. The commander was reprimanded immediately, and a check system with over 1000 points of checks somehow failed. In addition, most alarmingly, 6 missles were flown, only 5 came down, and there still isn´t any outcry in the media. This is a broken arrow situation. The nuke has yet to be recovered. It was flown over Nevada, near the San Andreas faultline.

FEMA has listed the following on their list of dirty tricks.
A.) A terrorist attack on New York City - Done
B.) A Hurricane destroys New Orleans - Done
C.) An Earthquake destroys San Francisco -

I think it´s more likely that the nuke is to be used against Iran.

- There are 3 carrier groups in the Persian Gulf near Iran prepared for a strike against various facilities in Iran
- 2 years ago, a massive operation involving special forces and submarines setout for the gulf as well. There are already reports of US operatives in Iran at this moment.
- 4 weeks ago, a massive short position was placed on the stock market. A short is a bet that the company or market is going to fall. The short position will expire in 8 days. No one knows who did it, but the entire financial community is still buzzing about it. Hell, I hear some brazilians talking about it. Word is, the bet is that the stock market will drop almost HALF. This is a near cataclysmic event kind of bet!
- The Fed, it what has got to be the biggest dumbass decision I have seen yet, dropped the interest rate. Obviously, this creates a hyperinflationary environment, and oh wait, today saudi Arabia is dumping dollars, for the first time in history. Oh, even better yet, the entire middle east follows the house of Saud´s moves, which means there´s 800 billion they´re getting rid of, and 3.5 trillion across the region. Does anyone realize what nutty chaos that injection of credit did to the markets those last 3 weeks? Now, let´s add that to 3.5 TRILLION COMING BACK TO THE USA.

Conclusions:
This is absolute lunacy going on now. I am beginning to wonder at the mentality of the controllers of the controllers of the controlled. However, there is a 770 trillion, and more, derivative bubble that´s already destroying credit. Soooo, is there enough hyperinflation to equal the massive deflation? If you think about that, then that interest rate drop sort of makes sense. But 770 trillion is a MASSIVE hit. Especially when you realize that the world only makes 30 trillion.

And now, the scary part. We have a loose nuke floating around, that hasn´t been recovered. Our nuke. Not a russian nuke, not a chinese nuke, not a french nuke, not a british nuke. OUR NUKE. SOMEWHERE in God knows where. With a huge short bet on the market to expire in about 8 days.

What you can do

Now, I always like to put this in, because, A.) I have a brain, body, and heart, and I use them. In the face of a storm, my family and I have always been prepared. It just so happens that this one is a massive one. B.) I don´t like to complain. I take action. So, with that said, again, I can´t stress this enough.

- get rid of as much debt as possible
- stash your money in silver and gold.
- Quit your job and take a lower paying job in a business you want to learn about, to develop business and people skills, because in the upcoming environment, building your own enterprise is far less riskier than looking for a job. Sales and marketing are key.
- get a pad of paper and pen and think of ways that you can service your community. As long as you take care of your community, they will take care of you, and in good times or bad, you will always prosper, or at the very least, get through it.
- start a business in a foreign country that has a currency that´s based on something real.
- Also remember that during the Great Depression, many car companies got their start, wrigley´s chewing gum, and the film industry got it´s start. Think about that, and you´ll realize that a deflationary environment is there to discipline you, not crush you.
- meditate on sending any kind of good (positive) energy to disrupt whoever the hell it is that´s planning to do something nasty with that lost nuke. This may sound kind of hokey, but I´ve seen 25 years of research that proves that there´s something your mind can do that´s nothing short of incredible.
- enjoy life, and remember, we´ve all been around through all kinds of situations.

"Your mind's pictures of today are tomorrows reality."

http://www.myspace.com/adventure_maniac
Blog: http://davesnewadventure.wordpress.com

Last edited by vietnamita; 09-22-2007 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 09-20-2007, 04:35 PM
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here's a scenario. USD gets as low as .43 against the euro, which is almost half of what it is now. wars are still going on and fears of a Great-er depression are funneled through the airwaves.

What are the odds that GWB's last act as President will be grant himself and his cronies a pardon for anything and everything they ever did while in office? LOL

Ok, but in a scenario where the USD stood at .43 to the euro, my intuition tells me that the USD would have dragged just about everything else down into the abyss with it, well maybe not the rouble or sterling to such an extent but all the other commonly traded currencies will go South as well. The RMB would certainly lose a lot of value and also the yen, the AUD, the Canadian, HKD, SGD, etc etc....

I know that's not really what you meant but I can't see the USD falling in isolation and the euro reigning supreme and standing tall amid the rubble and ashes.


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then the financial gurus at the Treasury Dept. and the Fed propose the introduction of a new currency based on a new exchange rate to pay off debts backed by the potential prosperity of a North American Union.

could happen.
Interesting. Are you saying it would spell the end of floated currency?

Or what if a loony populist clique gets elected into office in a landslide or a war cabinet is formed and they simply print more currency to pay off the creditors?

Or they could just put a gun to the head of the Chinese and tell them to keep the credit flowing and the engines running OR ELSE....
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