Do tell me what influenced you to form that opinion. Because, you're stating this like it is a fact, but this viewpoint can certainly be contested. There are plenty of "pickup artists" out there that take feelings and ethics into consideration. Too bad you didn't take them into account, but that certainly makes it easier to label the whole movement as "evil".

The problem with being a "pickup artist" or a "player" is that those two words and terms are just so... limiting. Why would a man want to define himself in that way, when he can be not just one thing, but so much more?

Those shows on VH1 are actually only scratching the most superficial surfaces of the matter.

The fact is, male cluelessness when it comes to women is a socially enforced thing. It can only be good if we can learn men how to relate to women as sexual and social equals.

Every now and then a couple of threads here pop up regarding the "rules" of relationships and dating. People of course recite (sometimes in great detail) the beliefs that they've been taught throughout their lives.

But let me say that in all my years of existence I've almost NEVER heard of anybody talk about the "X-factor", or about chemistry. There was even a show made many years ago titled "What women want". Do men know what women want? With the passing of time, more and more of the movement's students graduate to gain a deeper understanding of human nature - male or female.

There are so many misconceptions about the thing, and often even outright hostility. I could write more and go off on a thousand tangents, but I shan't today.

I read the book "The Game" by Neil Strauss when it first came out. Basically he was a 29 YO Virgin who toured w rock bands and still could not get laid. The entire premise of his book was to get LAID plan and simple. He wasn't looking for a relationship at all, just collecting as many phone #'s in one night as he could. He turned into a STUD who went from virgin to sexual dynamo within a very short time period. The men who practice this "gigolo" lifestyle end up feeling lonely and empty. It was a very entertaining read though. I highly recommend it.

The ability to "pick up" women is not the measure of a man's worth or character. Neither is it a solution to all of life's problems. Many of the characters in the book had incredible personal hurdles to go through, including incredible existential crises and mental problems such as depression, mood swings, social anxiety, and just plain and simple downright fucked up beliefs and attitudes.

Being able to interact with women as sexual equals and with high levels of mutual desirability can enhance a man's life, but certainly it isn't and will not be the summation of his entire life. Neither is religion and ascetic values like celibacy the answer to the problems and issues that life throws at us. Neither is many of society's socially approved values and ideas regarding mating and courtship.

There are many men out there whose lives have been enriched by the ability to get along with women better (), but the only caveat is that they must already have a worthwhile life.

i am so confused, partially because i just woke up. now, are we still in the wwI era? because i thought we weren't. i don't know about forcing our men to fight now. i mean we have people joining the military that are women; and men that are not even citizens. we have that other blackwater security thing which invloves members from around the world. how do women force their men to fight a war that is just outrageous in the name of "freedom"? we did not make or force george bush into the action of war. we did not fly into the towers or any other buildings? oh wait, is the the virgins waiting in heaven, right? damn bitches. lol (i am only joking about that). i am talking about present day, here. i could care less about how men were deceived into fighting through propaganda spread by *women* (a lone??). sure. i, for one, do not encourage fighting or even joining the military. it is a personal decision for someone that i have no part of. so, i do not see all of what you are sharing. i do not know too many women on that part that encourage their men to go fight the wars. i have seen plenty of women deciding to join the forces and do the exact same thing.

a role. mmmmmmm. you mean a piece of meat or a role? because there are men and women that place you in both. it is not only women. there are men who place that role on you as well, so do not forget that. nor should you forget it there is a lot of pressure from other guys in such a way that you like to frame women for it because we usually are the mommies, wives, girlfriends, companions, etc. we do not have that much power to place that role on you. if a man chooses that role, it is on him, not women. he has a decision in which to make and how to do it. it is not only women who force the man to do anything that is not of his own manliness. i may make my opinion clear when i am for or against something, but, i view it as my opinion---not something to be used to pressure a man to be completely different that would be against his nature of being a true man. seriously, what is a man supposed to be anyway? how is a man supposed to see himself in a good and healthy way in order to be a fully functional man? how is he supposed to not be oppressed by the womenkind? i am not trying to be sarcastic. i don't understand. i don't see a man as being a "man" because of stereotypical attitudes and actions. like: "oh he is just being a man." i might slip and say something like that, but, i do NOT mean it at all. because i do not think that men are subject to their specific qualifications that are reduced to that "role".

oh, to counter that non fem view on the pressure in wwI, is very simple....women were not allowed in combat. duh. women were not allowed to do so many things. we were only allowed to produce warcrafts and uniforms and supplies. so, yeah, i think it is ok for them to use that propaganda.