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Old 09-28-2007, 12:25 AM
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I have always had hard to understand that whites and blacks have lived in America for a few centuries, and they still don't get along. One would have thought that there wouldn't be racism any more... .
The tutsis and hutus have lived side-by side in central Africa for even longer, yet, if anything all these centuries of close proximity did was feed the cycle of inter ethnic strife until it exploded into attempted genocide. Rwanda was only the latest spasm in this cycle.

Hell, the jews were also in Germany even longer yet that did not prevent the Holocaust from happening.

Interaction does not necessarily lead to greater tolerance or acceptance.

That is not gloomy pessimism, that is historical fact.

Anyways, back to the discussion at hand.

It seems like, aside from the media's account - which is of dubious veracity - and in the minds of Sharpton and Jackson's sycophants, I have yet to see any actual relationship between the "noose hanging" ( which was used as a swing by both the white and black kids), the so-called "white tree" ( which, according the the locals, was a hangout spot for both whte and black kids) and the beating case for which the Jena Six is being tried for.
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Old 09-28-2007, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
The tutsis and hutus have lived side-by side in central Africa for even longer, yet, if anything all these centuries of close proximity did was feed the cycle of inter ethnic strife until it exploded into attempted genocide. Rwanda was only the latest spasm in this cycle.
you've left out the context, these two groups were in close proximity but the conflict only festered to the point it did because of the divide and conquered strategy used by colonialists. ie) they didnt suddenly decided they didnt like each other enough to commit mass genocide all by themselves.

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...Interaction does not necessarily lead to greater tolerance or acceptance.
Thats true, but generally it does help to promote greater tolerance or acceptance.


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Last edited by ratbert1009ca; 09-28-2007 at 01:16 AM.
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Old 09-28-2007, 05:11 AM
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they didnt suddenly decided they didnt like each other enough to commit mass genocide all by themselves.
Of course not.

Most inter-ethnic strife and genocide come about as a result of grievances. Some which take centuries to mainfest. Others which happen quite quicly such as the Dayak-Madurese schism which broke out in Borneo.

I agree that colonialism was the main culprit in the various hutu-tutsi clash but many other examples of racial/ethnic occurred even before the arrival of Western Imperialism. The Punti-Hakka Clan wars were one. The wholesale slaughter and ethnic cleansing of the Arabs, Jews, Persians and Christians from Guangzhou by anti Tang forces in the 8th century is another.


Quote:
Thats true, but generally it does help to promote greater tolerance or acceptance.
"Tolerance" and "acceptance" can generally only exist and flourish under the following conditions:

1)When the results of the said interaction is mutually beneficial to all parties.

2)When exingent circumstances force all parties to depend on each other for survival

3)When all involved groups are forced at gov't gunpoint to co-exist.

When options 1 & 2 are absent, # 3 only works as long as the regime in power can enforce it's edicts. Often with despotic and brutal measures.

And once coercion from the Powers That Be are gone, all bets are off.

Examples:

* The dissolving of the USSR into fifteen separate Republics - many of which are experiencing their own break ups as various mutually incompatible cultural groups decide to either separate or fight among one another. Or Both.

* The late Yugoslaivia and the Balkans War which may flare up again if Kosovo makes good on it's intended move towards independence.

* The break up of Czechoslvakia.

* The troubles brewing in South America as Chavez and Morales attempt to forge a Pan-Indianismo coalition to depose the Old Order of Latin America's economic and ruling elite.

* The present schism between the Flemish and the Walloons which may result in the break up of Belgium.
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Old 09-28-2007, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Koxinga View Post
Of course not.

Most inter-ethnic strife and genocide come about as a result of grievances. Some which take centuries to mainfest. Others which happen quite quicly such as the Dayak-Madurese schism which broke out in Borneo.

I agree that colonialism was the main culprit in the various hutu-tutsi clash but many other examples of racial/ethnic occurred even before the arrival of Western Imperialism. The Punti-Hakka Clan wars were one. The wholesale slaughter and ethnic cleansing of the Arabs, Jews, Persians and Christians from Guangzhou by anti Tang forces in the 8th century is another.




"Tolerance" and "acceptance" can generally only exist and flourish under the following conditions:

1)When the results of the said interaction is mutually beneficial to all parties.

2)When exingent circumstances force all parties to depend on each other for survival

3)When all involved groups are forced at gov't gunpoint to co-exist.

When options 1 & 2 are absent, # 3 only works as long as the regime in power can enforce it's edicts. Often with despotic and brutal measures.

And once coercion from the Powers That Be are gone, all bets are off.

Examples:

* The dissolving of the USSR into fifteen separate Republics - many of which are experiencing their own break ups as various mutually incompatible cultural groups decide to either separate or fight among one another. Or Both.

* The late Yugoslaivia and the Balkans War which may flare up again if Kosovo makes good on it's intended move towards independence.

* The break up of Czechoslvakia.

* The troubles brewing in South America as Chavez and Morales attempt to forge a Pan-Indianismo coalition to depose the Old Order of Latin America's economic and ruling elite.

* The present schism between the Flemish and the Walloons which may result in the break up of Belgium.
I've noticed that, in all the places in the world where very significant things in this vein happened in previous generations, the same kind of thing has sprung up again.
For instance, the assasination of Arch Duke Ferdinand.


.




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Old 09-28-2007, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sweeteugenia05 View Post
I've noticed that, in all the places in the world where very significant things in this vein happened in previous generations, the same kind of thing has sprung up again.
well people will fight actively until they are old then they teach their kids what bastards so and so are, then when they grow up they restart the fight. eventually someone has to be smart and calm enough to find some common ground and mutual benefits and just say stop.
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Old 09-28-2007, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ratbert1009ca View Post
well people will fight actively until they are old then they teach their kids what bastards so and so are, then when they grow up they restart the fight. eventually someone has to be smart and calm enough to find some common ground and mutual benefits and just say stop.
Excellent observation.

I have NEVER seen a case where a higher court overturned the conviction, but the local authorities continued hold the person.
Not only are they holding him, but they are holding him in an adult correctional facility. WTF!
That's a serious violation of his constitutional rights.
Not only that, but it's a clear indication of the high level of unaccountability on the part of the local judiciary and law enforcement.
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Old 10-04-2007, 06:45 AM
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some of my fraternity brothers went to jena for the protest. i support them in a sense that they should recieve a fair trial as opposed to being tried as adults (i think that's right).
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Old 10-12-2007, 06:06 AM
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