"Asian Women, Caucasian Men" by Joan Walsh - AznLover.com - AMXF - AMWF,AMBF,AMHF,AMLF,AMAF Social Networking Community
AZNLover Home Forum Personals

Go Back   AznLover.com - AMXF - AMWF,AMBF,AMHF,AMLF,AMAF Social Networking Community » AznLover Community » My Asian Lover


My Asian Lover General Discussions. Community-related chit chat.

» Site Navigation
» -------------------
» -------------------
» -------------------
» Advertisement
» Upcoming Events
No events scheduled in
the next 30 days.
» New Gallery Photos


Latest 5 Blogs
Freeze - Music Video Last Blog: 07-03-2009 By: faiz






I think I figured it out. Last Blog: 07-02-2009 By: Nomad


Random thought Last Blog: 07-02-2009 By: Intolight

Best birthday party EVER. Last Blog: 07-02-2009 By: Nomad

Being a boring person... Last Blog: 07-02-2009 By: NordicQueen


» Social Groups
Creatives
Member Count - 8
Picture Count - 0

Aznlover Addiction Recovery
Member Count - 29
Picture Count - 1

Halloween!
Member Count - 10
Picture Count - 0

Reading group
Member Count - 26
Picture Count - 0

Fully Sick Boys
Member Count - 8
Picture Count - 0



View All Groups
» New AZNLover Articles
Asian Americans: An Analysis of Negative Stereotypical Characters in Popular Media
Category: Asian Movies and Film Entertainment,  posted on 06-12-2009 by AZNLover
What does it mean to be Asian American?
Category: Asian Culture,  posted on 06-08-2009 by AZNLover
Dating 101: Dealing With the Race Factor - How to cope with four common obstacles in interracial dating
Category: Asian Relationships (Dating/Marriage/Sex),  posted on 06-07-2009 by AZNLover
Japan's 'herbivore men' - less interested in sex, money
Category: Asian Culture,  posted on 06-07-2009 by AZNLover
Fallout of the White-Yellow Love Fest
Category: Asian Relationships (Dating/Marriage/Sex),  posted on 04-25-2009 by AZNLover
» Current Poll
Who's gotta Motorcycle? (click all that apply to you)
Yes - I ride a sportsbike. - 42.11%
8 Votes
Yes - I ride a cruiser/standard. - 10.53%
2 Votes
Yes - I ride off-road. - 5.26%
1 Vote
No - don't have a bike currently but I have a motorcycle license. - 5.26%
1 Vote
No - but I am in actively looking to buy or take the MSF class. - 15.79%
3 Votes
No - you fools are crazy!!! - 26.32%
5 Votes
Total Votes: 19
You may not vote on this poll.
» Welcome Our Newest Members
[0]
[0]
[0]
[0]
[1]
apk
[1]
[1]
[0]
[1]
gtr35
[13]
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 05:45 PM
maveric's Avatar
maveric surfing AZNLover.com
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Gender: Male
Relationship Status: Single
AL Buck$: 1,926
Posts: 45
Friends: (28)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
maveric is on a distinguished roadmaveric is on a distinguished road
Question "Asian Women, Caucasian Men" by Joan Walsh

I'm interested in what people think now about an article written by Joan Walsh and published on December 2, 1990 in the San Francisco Examiner. Have things changed in the last 18 years?:

Asian Women, Caucasian Men
It's a growing trend in the Bay Area's new multicultural world. But these relationships can bring with them social and psychological complications.

The multicultural Bay Area has long prided itself on its relaxed attitudes about race. This spirit of tolerance extends to interracial love - a subject that still raises blood pressure to bursting in many parts of the country but one that's old-hat here. Few raise an eyebrow, let alone a fist, at the sight of mixed-race couples. But as the Bay Area grows ever more racially diverse, and intermarriages consequently increase, new questions and tensions are emerging.

Most of them have to do with the hottest interracial pairing these days - white men with Asian women.

Part of this trend can be attributed to simple demographics - after all, whites and Asians are the area's two largest racial groups. And many mixed-race relationships are, of course, free of racial meaning - the result of the timeless, colorblind democracy of love. But others involve murkier motivations.

There's no better place to take the dating temperature of the Bay Area than the personal ads section of the San Francisco Bay Guardian. In these teeming pages, being a woman of Asian descent is a marketing plus, the female version of being a straight man who wants kids. Unfortunately, as a 35-year-old romantic shopper named Ana Reyes learned, it also attracts men who might enjoy a Bangkok sex tour or import an Asian mail-order bride - men who, in other words, have some offensive notions about Asian women. "You should see some of the letters," groans Reyes, a saleswoman of Philippine descent who ventured into the personals market after a long-term relationship ended. "Some of them made me want to write back just to tell them off."

There was the Marine who reminisced about his tour of duty in the Philippines, where his Filipina girlfriend did his laundry. "He said he liked Filipinas best, because they really know how to treat their men," Ana recalls. Others were hot for the "exotic Asian look," she says.

This is 1990, in an increasingly Asian city, where Asian-American women are visible as newscasters, judges, political power-brokers, university professors. But judging from the letters she received, Ana concludes, a lot of white guys still think "we're all nice girls who cater to men." (In fact, the notion that Asian women are "nice" may be the 1990s update on the stereotype that they're "submissive," the term is heard so often in discussions of Asian-white dating.) Of the 60-plus respondents to Ana's ad, all but three were white. Some seemed to be professional personals-correspondents ("The letters looked xeroxed, like resumes.") Some were professional Asian-daters. Ana wasn't pleased.

"When a man tells me he usually dates Asian women, I tell him I'm very concerned about what that means," she says. "I know some are looking for "Cherry Blossom' girls," inspired by the company that imports Asian women for marriage with traditional-minded American men. "Then there are the ones who are just into the "exotic' look. I want to blow their stereotypes."

Ana shatters at least two stereotypes - that of Asian women as submissive, and personals advertisers as rejects. Analytical and articulate, the college-educated Reyes is also beautiful, with looks at the intersection of Hispanic and Asian. It's a look that she knows is in vogue now, and she's ambivalent about her current popularity. "Some of these guys who write, all they want to know is what I look like, and it really bothers me. But I guess I'm sort of asking for it by advertising that I'm Asian." Why did she put her race in the ad, I ask. "Everybody else does," she says. "To leave it out would seem dishonest." It would also be a marketing mistake. In the competitive world of the personals ads, hyping your assets is key, and being Asian gets results. Ana recognizes the contradiction, and shrugs. She's hoping to reconcile with her old boyfriend anyway.

Ana's old boyfriend, and the boyfriend before that, are white. Despite discomfort with stereotyping, Ana and other Asian women are dating white men in increasing numbers, leaving some Asian men and white women watching with growing frustration from the sidelines.

High-profile women of Asian descent reflect the trend: writers Amy Tan and Maxine Hong Kingston, newscasters Connie Chung, Wendy Tokuda and Jan Yanehiro - all have Caucasian husbands. The phenomenon is spawning its own jargon. White men who prefer Asian women are said to "like rice"; they have "Asian-women syndrome"; they're "Asian-women-aholics" or "rice queens" (a term borrowed from the gay world, where white-Asian romance is also hot).

The high number of Asians in the Bay Area, along with their high education and income levels, makes some of the cross-cultural romance inevitable. In California, American-born Asians are more likely to marry outside their own group (or "outmarry," to use the sociological term) than any other race - in some Asian ethnic groups, the outmarriage rate is as high as 80 percent. And when they do outmarry, their partners are most likely to be white. But there's more to Asian-white romance than demography. If numbers told the whole story, Asian men would just as likely be involved with white women as the reverse. They're not, by a long shot. A recent sampling of marriage records for San Francisco County showed that four times as many Asian women as Asian men married whites, says Sonoma State University professor Larry Shinagawa; in Sacramento the ratio was 8 to 1.

Dating trends are similar. Great Expectations dating service reports a 10 percent increase in white men choosing Asian women from its video introductions in California over the last three years (with only a tiny jump in Asian women members) and no such trend involving white women and Asian men. Glance at Bay Guardian personals, and it's clear Asians are by far the top choice of white men seeking women of another race. And when women of Asian descent advertise in the Guardian's voice-mail personals, "they definitely get more calls than other women," says classifieds manager Julia Loftis.

This "new" trend has very old roots, of course. Fantasies of Asian femininity have been imprinted on the American male psyche for generations, thanks to three major wars in the Pacific and a constellation of U.S. military bases there. Since the 1940s, more than 200,000 Asian women have married U.S. servicemen, helping spread the G.I. gospel that Asians make "good wives." You can see the exotic-erotic appeal of Asian women in American films, from The World of Suzie Wong to Full Metal Jacket (albeit in stereotypes offensive to most Asians).

But today, a merger of old and new cultural myths is making white-Asian romance as much fact as fantasy. Asian female "exoticism," for instance, is serving as a potent antidote to over-familiarity between the sexes. In an age when men and women are studying, working and parenting side by side, cross-cultural romance is reintroducing "otherness" into relationships, for those who need it. And alongside creepy stereotypes about Asian female passivity (or "niceness," to use the '90s euphemism) there's a new mythology - and reality - of Asian power, in which the energy, intelligence and economic vitality of the Pacific Rim is personified in its women, making them objects of desire and status.

Karen Shimoda might be the "new" mythic Asian woman. Bright, attractive, assertive, the 35-year-old second-generation Japanese-American is the sales manager of a thriving consumer electronics firm. "My mother always asks me, "In a family with three brothers, how did you turn out to be the most driving and ambitious?' " she says. I ask her the same question, and she thinks for just a moment.

"Probably because of my mother. She wound up divorced, on her own at 30, with four kids to support and no clue about what to do," she recalls. She became a legal secretary and made a decent living, but then she married again, "a traditional Japanese guy who didn't want her to work. And it was hard for her to break with tradition." But after quitting her job, Karen's mother was miserable: "She thought she had always wanted someone to take care of her, but she realized she didn't." She filed for divorce after six months and she returned to work.

Her mother's example made Karen resolve to be independent, and her desire for independence, she believes, rules out dating Asian men. "There are very few Japanese men who are attractive to me. The Chinese are even more conservative. The cultures favor men, and the traditional ideas seem to stick with them." In her teens, she recalls, one of her brother's friends showed some interest in her, "But my brother told him, "Forget it, buddy, she'd blow you away.' It's that I'm not quiet. I argue."

Karen's fiance, 34-year-old Ted Henry, is not your standard rice queen - all his previous girlfriends have been white. He may be even more typical: a white man whose dream woman just happens to be Asian. Geisha-girl stereotypes make Ted laugh, since he does most of the cooking and cleaning in their house. He's the one who gets up to freshen my drink, as we sit in the dining room of their Richmond District home. Ted is making a career transition, and only working part-time; Karen's the primary breadwinner in the relationship. She's serious, almost to the point of solemn; Ted, ironic behind his egghead glasses, is the joker. "It's my job to lighten her up," he says.

Still, he's had to cope with the stereotypes of some friends when they learned he had a Japanese-American girlfriend. "I heard a comment or two: "Is she going to cook for you?' - that kind of thing," he says. They don't know Karen. "She's a great equal," he says admiringly, with a sense of being in on a happy secret.

Like Ted, my friend Eric scorns stereotypes of Asian women as submissive domestic goddesses. He says take-charge Asian women are behind the surge in Asian-white romance. "White men have always wanted to date Asian women," he tells me, with a self-mocking leer that implies white men have always wanted to "date" anything that moves. "But now it's the Asian women who are taking the initiative. Ten, 15 years ago, you couldn't get the time of day from an Asian woman. They were more traditional - you know, eyes down, shy. Now it's like women's assertiveness has caught up with them too. It's OK for them to go after men, especially white men."

Eric, 38, speaks from experience. He dated Lydia, an immigrant from Taiwan, for three years and got to know her circle of Taiwanese friends, all of whom hoped he'd fix them up with other white men. Eric's friends thought Lydia was nice, if a little quiet, and reasonably attractive; he thought she was a knockout. He admits to having "a thing" for Asian women's looks: "They have the bodies that modern clothes fit really well." Lydia, he claims, was lured in part by rumors about the sexual endowment of white men - white men are reputedly to Asian men what black men are supposed to be to whites. (I heard this piece of folklore from four white men and no Asian women, and I was unable to confirm it personally.) Stereotypes of Asian female subservience, Eric says vehemently, played no role in their attraction. "She didn't cook for me. She didn't do my laundry. She had a career. I went out with her because we had a great time together."

For her part, Lydia had left a traditional, restrictive marriage to another Taiwanese immigrant and was looking for someone easy-going, who extended her a measure of independence. Like Karen Shimoda, she believed white men would allow her more autonomy than Asians. "We got along because I treated her nice," Eric says. He's telling the story after dinner at my house, with my infant daughter finally quiet, in bed. The evening has been punctuated by baby-feeding, baby-diapering and baby-coddling, much of which, to Eric's amusement, my husband has attended to.

"White women don't know how good they have it," he tells me. "In what other cultures do you have the men cleaning up the baby barf?"

Asian women appreciate white men, in a way many white women don't, Eric believes. And while all evening he has denied that social or psychological factors influenced his attraction to Lydia, now he owns up to one subterranean motive: "Dating between the white sexes is a minefield these days. Sometimes white women just seem really mixed up. They want a relationship, but they don't. They want a nice, sensitive guy, but they also want a brute. They want a mellow guy who doesn't work all the time, but they sneer at anyone who doesn't wear a suit and drive a BMW. Somehow Asian women don't seem to get caught up in all that - or at least they don't talk about it."

Here's where discussions of white-Asian romance get sticky, and it's time to make some crucial distinctions. There's no proof that most white men who date and marry Asians are fleeing white women; many, like Ted Henry, may just happen to fall in love with someone who happens to be of Asian descent. (Eric, in fact, wound up marrying a white woman.) But among those who only date Asian women, or who voice strong preferences for Asians, there's frequently an undercurrent of frustration with feminism.

Mike Arnold describes himself as "maladroit" with women. He blames it on his father, a child abuser he likens to Hitler. Thanks to subtle sexual belittling - "I should write a WASP Portnoy's Complaint," he says - Mike didn't date until college, and then only fitfully. Now, at 42, he dates only Asians, with chilling self-awareness about his motivations.

"I get some breaks from Asian women. Their standards are lower," he says matter-of-factly. "It's a Darwinistic world, dating-wise, and I have an inferiority complex with white women. Most of them have a big chip on their shoulders, and I don't care how liberated they say they are, they're not interested in someone who doesn't make much money. I eventually realized that being white, I could make it with an Asian woman who's more physically attractive than I am, just because she's got a cultural inferiority complex."

Mike discovered his attraction to Asian women while living in a San Francisco residence club favored by Japanese tourists. But in the hierarchy of Asians, as he sees it, Japanese are at the top, and he had little luck with them. A Chinese woman he dated was "emotionally muscle-bound - she had a high-powered job and that's all she talked about." Romance with a Korean woman fizzled. Now the balding, blue-eyed retail manager mostly dates Filipinas, some of whom he meets through dating clubs that specialize in white-Asian pairings. He's most comfortable with recent immigrants, despite language difficulties (he speaks some Tagalog). "Sometimes I think a wife with a language barrier might appreciate me more. She'd say, "Oh, he tries so hard, he studies my language, he wants to understand me,' instead of, "Oh, he's so emotionally remote, he's an iceberg.' "

Tom Knight has had more luck in love than Mike has, with white women as well as Asians, but he too finds it difficult being emotional with some white women. "Men were raised to be tough, and though I'd like to be more emotional, there's a fear there with women I feel too much equality with." That's part of why he prefers dating Asian women.

"I see something of a feminist backlash in it," admits the fortysomething art professional. "I don't really understand it, but I know I feel less threatened by Asian women. I grew up in a culture where men acted a certain way and women acted a certain way, and I'm more comfortable with Asian culture, where interpersonal relations are more ritualized, and women are graceful, polite and considerate." Traveling in China cemented his preference for Asian looks. He started thinking of white women as "big, overweight Amazonians, with no bra, frizzy hair and lots of freckles. It made me feel kind of ugly myself."

When he met his first Japanese-American girlfriend, Tom recalls, "I liked looking at her. She didn't look threatening, mean or sad. She was pretty, but not beautiful - beautiful is threatening too. I thought, I could live with this person." He did, for six years. "She did a lot for me: She had tea ready when I came home, she scrubbed me in the bathtub. I liked it - you probably would too. My friends thought it was sick, but it made me happy. I think the Western world is too into individuality, and with her I had a mutual striving for harmony."

Eventually, though, the relationship ended. "There's such a thing as too much "otherness.' We couldn't communicate. We weren't mental equals. Her whole world was her relationship with me." His new girlfriend is Japanese-American too, but she's a high-powered broadcasting professional who is also "really nice." Tom confesses: "I want everything."

To some white women, Tom's quest for a "nice" career woman and Mike's dating Darwinism confirms their worst fears - that white men are going AWOL from the battle of the sexes by dating Asians, leaving them alone with the cold comforts of asexual equality.

Sherrie Thompson, for instance, moved to the Bay Area from the Midwest, where Asians were few. But in the night clubs of San Francisco, she discovered that Asian women were numerous, attractive and in high demand. The 27-year-old organizational consultant was unprepared for - and not too proud of - her negative reaction.

"I have to admit I felt threatened," she recalls. "Asians seem kind of like what a man would say "the ideal woman' is - you know: small, thin, fragile, almost doll-like." At five-foot-one and 110 pounds, Sherrie is no Amazon herself. But some men prefer Asians "because they seem more chic, exotic," she says. "I know it's my own insecurity talking, and that behind their appearance they're probably smart, interesting women, with ideas, with opinions. But I just felt like most guys were into their appearance - and stereotypes about how they treat men."

Sherrie isn't alone. At the University of California campuses in Berkeley and Los Angeles, where Asian enrollments have climbed sharply in the last decade, the hottest interracial pairing is white men with Asian women - to the chagrin of some white women. Both white and Asian students at Berkeley told me about white guys signing up for Asian-language courses and joining the Asian Business Association, just to meet Asian women. "We call them eggs - white on the outside, yellow in the middle," says Serene Ngin, a Berkeley student. (Asian women who date white men are sometimes dismissed as "twinkies," yellow on the outside, white within.)

Their new popularity is a shock to a lot of Asian women. "Until I came to Berkeley, I never felt like white guys were interested in me. I felt like Asian women weren't that attractive," says Karen Co, 21, a Berkeley senior of Chinese descent, who is in fact strikingly beautiful. "When I got here and saw all the white guys with Asian girls, I couldn't believe it. I would just stare at these couples walking through campus, holding hands."

For white women, the surprise is similar and not entirely pleasant. Some talk of an "Asian-women fetish" that is spreading among white men, some of whom are quite open about preferring Asians. Researchers at UC-Berkeley's Diversity Project found strong resentment of the trend among some white women, who "feel they've been displaced by Asians as the fantasy object of desire," says sociologist David Minkus.

Of course, white women are disadvantaged by the defection of white men for Asian women - unless they're willing to date Asian men in comparable numbers. And generally, they're not.

"It's Asian men who really get the short end of the stick," admits Elizabeth Crandall, 20, a member of Berkeley's Alpha Phi sorority. "Asian women are with white men, but white women don't date Asians." That's not exactly news to Asian men at Berkeley. Doug Nishida, president of the predominantly Asian fraternity Lambda Phi Epsilon, pulled together a group of his friends to talk about the Asian women-white men phenomenon. Our conversation flashed back and forth between sociological theories and personal angst. Of the four, only Doug has a girlfriend right now, a trend they attribute at least partly to the preference of Asian women for white men.

"It's a big deal," says Doug, who is a 21-year-old integrative biology major from Monterey Park. "Whenever Asian men get together these days they talk about it, make jokes about it." Dave Nakamura cuts in sharply: "I don't think it's funny."

All four have discussed the trend with friends, with family, in Asian-American Studies classes. They believe American culture - white culture - has sought to emasculate men of color, and see the same impulse that insulted black men with the term "boy" neutering Asian men. "Look at the Rambo movies, or The Karate Kid," says Bryan Nobida, whose heritage is half-Chinese, half-Filipino. "Look at all movies and TV. Asian men are either celibate, sexless or else we're rapists, someone that a white man should save a woman from. The Asian never winds up with the woman."

Like many Asian men (and some women), all four believe an urge to assimilate is behind the attraction to white men among Asian women. For Japanese-Americans in particular, the bitter experience of internment during World War II led to "shame about their culture and a strong desire to assimilate," Doug says. His parents were interned, as were Dave's. Both believe that traumatic experience helps explain an outmarriage rate of over 70 percent among Japanese-American women, and it disturbs them.

"If a Japanese-American man wants to preserve his culture, his choices are becoming increasingly limited," observes Dave, who has two uncles who are bachelors. "As an Asian-American, I can't complain," he says, because he thinks all races should be free to date whomever they want. "But as a man, I get very upset. It wouldn't be as bad if white women were dating Asian men, but they aren't." Of the four - all good-looking, funny, articulate - only Doug has ever dated a white woman, which shocked me, even though I know the statistics.

"So it's pretty upsetting," Dave continues. "It's a sexual thing, it's very primal - it's like your turf is being invaded, and it makes you angry."

The others laugh at his bluntness, but they mostly agree. "It wouldn't bother me as much if Asian women were also dating black men or Latino men," Bryan says. "But it's white guys. I've heard Asian women say they only date white guys. And it's because we live in a white culture. They do it for status. It's self-contempt."

Bryan's friends agree that the preference for white men among large numbers of Asian women reflects a self-loathing born of racism. Their consensus is a little too glib - it reminded me of gripe sessions with my girlfriends, in which we trash wayward boyfriends and other feckless men for "being threatened by strong women," "not being ready for a real relationship" and other mantras of self-protection, to mute the pain of personal rejection. But I felt for these guys nonetheless.

Ana Reyes and I are sitting over soft drinks at the Blue Danube, that Caucasian island on Chinese Clement Street, trying to analyze her preference for white men over Asians. At times, she's almost as pained by it as Doug Nishida and his friends. "I'd like to at least have a balance, date some Asians, date some whites," she says. "I mean, how thoughtless can I be, just seeing whites? I know it has a lot to do with socialization - the images of masculinity in our culture are definitely not Asian."

But, reluctantly, she blames some of it on Asian men. There's the sexism problem, but most important, for Ana, is what she calls Asian "conformity." Most Asians, she believes, are striving "for a mainstream life. They're heading towards yuppiedom. They're materialistic." Just then a horn starts blaring outside the cafe. A cherry-red Mazda RX7, just off the lot, has a short-circuit and the fade-coiffed Chinese-American youth at the wheel seems embarrassed but a tiny bit proud at the attention his new car is getting. We have to laugh. "See what I mean?" she jokes.

Yet the stereotyping Ana and I indulged in can feed on itself. It also gives white men more credit than they deserve: There are plenty of white guys driving around pricey phallic objects, but nobody ever thinks it's particularly white of them. "People tend to compare all Asian men to the top one percent of white men - the most elite, the most sophisticated, the most liberal, the most educated," observes Sonoma State's Larry Shinagawa. "They aren't less sexist or whatever because they're white, but because they've had more social opportunities than Asian men, and they're not limited by stereotypes."

Shinagawa has a theory about intermarriage that is near-heretical, in a country that scorns ideology and idealizes romance. Where most of us see only love and attraction, Shinagawa sees hierarchies of race, class and gender mucking around in our marriage decisions. The high outmarriage rate of Asian-American women only points up the ambiguous social status of Asian-Americans in this country, he believes: On the one hand,that whites marry Asians far more than any other race shows the extent to which Asians have "arrived"; on the other hand, that it's mostly white men marrying Asian women shows how prejudice and stereotypes persist, despite progress.

Shinagawa and colleague Gin Yong Pang, a doctoral candidate in Ethnic Studies at UC-Berkeley, have coined their own term, "hiergamy," to explain intermarriage patterns, including the tendency of Asian-American women to marry white men. Hiergamy, says Shinagawa, holds that in marriage, people "try to maximize their status opportunities, and their sense of wholeness, in the context of a society that's stratified by race, class and gender."

That's a mouthful, but it works like this: Given a choice between Asian men - who have some economic clout but less social status - and educated white men - who have economic clout and social status, as well as the more liberal attitudes social acceptance can bring - many Asian women would choose the latter. The concept also explains why many white men marry Asian women, Shinagawa says: "They are bright, educated and articulate women, but in the racial fantasies of white men they have always been portrayed as submissive, domestic and sexy - qualities they think white women have abandoned for feminism." White men, in other words, are trading a little public status for some private happiness, a reasonable compromise under hiergamy.

Shinagawa's theories have been interpreted as implying that Asian women are social climbing by marrying white men, an inference he vehemently rejects. It's easy to see how he's read that way, though, since he tends to stress socioeconomics in explaining how hiergamy operates. He believes the improving fortunes of Asian-Americans, for instance, can be measured in rising rates of inter-ethnic Asian marriage - Chinese-Filipino or Korean-Japanese - and in stagnating outmarriage rates for higher-status Japanese-Americans, who were once thought to be in danger of fading into white America. "It's mainly socioeconomic," he says - or in other words, Asian men are becoming better catches.

But hiergamy governs everyone, Shinagawa says. "We all marry to make ourselves happy and to maximize our opportunities," he notes. "Asian women, like Asian men, are responding to the way society treats them. No one can second-guess their choices."

Some people do, at least a little. At UC-Berkeley, where assimilation is politically incorrect, so is interracial dating. Though it's increasingly popular, some Asian women are bucking the trend.

"I don't see how Asian women can take Asian-American Studies courses and learn about how American culture has "feminized' Asian men, and then continue to date white men," says Susan Kim, 21, a Korean-American Berkeley student who only dates Asians and wishes more Asian women would do the same. She gathered a group of her friends who share her beliefs for a frank conversation on Asian-white relationships.

Susan seems to see a little of Mike Arnold, dating Darwinist, in every white man. "I'm not comfortable with white men," she says. "I don't know why they're asking me out and I don't trust them. I know the media images they put on me."

Susan bluntly questions the motivations of Asian women who date white men. "I know you can't generalize, but what I see is a lot of Asian girls dating white guys to be accepted, to assimilate," she says. Reluctantly, she agrees with other Asian women that white men "are less sexist than most Asian men. There's an extreme devaluing of women in most Asian cultures." Susan is involved with Doug Nishida, the Lambda president, and she finds Japanese-Americans "less patriarchal than Korean men." Even dating Doug required some soul-searching on her part, because of traditional Japanese-Korean enmity as well as "a sense of guilt" over high outmarriage rates among Japanese-Americans.

Many of Susan's friends share her commitment to dating only Asians. "I want someone who speaks Chinese, someone who family is really important to," says Karen Co. She also shares Susan's squeamishness about lurid white-male fantasies of Asian women. In fact, most of the women seemed to harbor stereotypes of whites - males as well as females - as sex maniacs, as contrasted with modest Asians. "Whenever you see couples making out on campus, or at a shopping mall, they're always white," says Karen. "It's a really white thing to do." Betty Chiu, 20, recalled how "in the dorms, the whites all had a lot more sexual experience than I had, or most of the other Asians had. I was really kind of shocked."

But some on campus are beginning to be bothered by the stigma attached to white-Asian couples. Cindy Nakashima, 27, an Asian-American Studies doctoral candidate whose mother is white, is pained by it. In an increasingly multiracial California, where intermarriage will only become more common, such attitudes are "dangerous," says Nakashima, who has started a support group for mixed-race students and those in interracial relationships. "Instead of focusing on what's wrong with interracial dating and marriage, maybe we should look at what's right: that some people haven't been so distorted that they can't fall in love with somebody who isn't like them," she believes.

I mostly agree with Cindy Nakashima, but I think we're both a little naive. Increasingly, "what's wrong" with interracial romance has less to do with old-style racial prejudice than with cultural anxiety produced by dramatic demographic changes. Soon no racial group will hold a majority in the state, and many Asians, blacks and Latinos are pushing to retire the melting pot of assimilation. There will be more, not less, criticism of intermarriage from the politically correct in the coming years.

Many white women are at a loss to respond to California's new demographics of love. Openness to intermarriage has been a badge of white liberalism; but jealousy is precisely the reaction of many white women bugged by "Asian-women syndrome" among white men - jealousy and a sick feeling that the "syndrome" is a new name for an old malady, the inability of men to have intimate relationships with women they see as equals. Then, too, educated Asian women are formidable rivals, and some of the tension may reflect the larger anxiety - felt by white men and women alike - about losing socioeconomic status to up-and-coming Asians.

It's a weird spectacle: men and women bickering, but casting their complaints in terms of race. But in California, race is a growing part of the bedroom dialogue. Whether innocent or influenced by subterranean motivations, relationships between white men and Asian women are increasingly a part of the contemporary sexual landscape - one that's here to stay.

Ana Reyes and other names marked with an asterisk in this story are pseudonyms.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 08:29 PM
bosox's Avatar
bosox status is: I am a handy man myself...
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA, USA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 37,708
Posts: 4,210
Friends: (49)
Nominated 2 Times in 2 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 1767
bosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond repute
Can you sum it up in 10 sentences please... do you actually expect me to read 5 page articles at this hour after long days at work????
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 09:08 PM
ericov2 status is: missing appendages...
Account Deleted
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Vancouver
Gender: Male
Relationship Status: Taken
AL Buck$: 4,384
Posts: 298
Friends: (16)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
ericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the roughericov2 is a jewel in the rough
I read about half. Whats changed? I don't know. Maybe the younger generation are more open I see a lot of young AM/WF couples.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 09:13 PM
nguman's Avatar
nguman status is: :D
Apprentice
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Canada
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 603
Posts: 19
Friends: (1)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
nguman is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericov2 View Post
I read about half. Whats changed? I don't know. Maybe the younger generation are more open I see a lot of young AM/WF couples.
Well, I hope thats the case I'm part of that younger generation
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 09:40 PM
oistrakh's Avatar
oistrakh status is: finally well-rested!
Lover
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 2,925
Posts: 195
Friends: (8)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
oistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really niceoistrakh is just really nice
LOL, I just spent the last half hour actually reading the damn article, crap that thing's long!!! I guess I was the only one!

Considering it was written over 18 years ago (an entire generation!), I think some things have changed, and some have not. From the standpoint of the Asian male, I think the article definitely propagates stereotypes about Asian males that I personally have not found to be true amongst myself or other friends. It's funny how articles that serve to raise awareness frequently just enforce stereotypes.

For considering it's a generation later, I think there are a lot more Asians, both male and female, who have been born and raised in the US, and thus have more "American" ideas rather than "Asian" ideas, about dating, gender equality, etc., assuming we even agree that the article is correct about what "American" vs. "Asian" ideas are (which itself is up for debate!). So given that more and more of the Asian population is shifting towards people who have grown up in the US versus immigrants, I think much of what the article is talking about no longer applies. There are a different set of issues now, don't get me wrong, but I think the issues have changed.
__________________
"The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 10:10 PM
bosox's Avatar
bosox status is: I am a handy man myself...
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MA, USA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 37,708
Posts: 4,210
Friends: (49)
Nominated 2 Times in 2 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 27 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 1767
bosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond reputebosox has a reputation beyond repute
What!!! It was written 18 years ago?!?!?!

I zoned out at HELLO as soon as I saw how long the article is
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2008, 10:42 PM
creamofcow's Avatar
creamofcow status is: twittery
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oakland, CA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 31,930
Posts: 2,500
Friends: (64)
Nominated 7 Times in 5 Posts
Nominated TOTW Award(s): 2
Thanks: 19
Thanked 47 Times in 21 Posts
Rep Power: 3608
creamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond reputecreamofcow has a reputation beyond repute
Wrong forum, mang.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2008, 07:54 AM
McGuyver surfing AZNLover.com
Lover
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Australia
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 4,402
Posts: 113
Friends: (2)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
McGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really niceMcGuyver is just really nice
I thought this was very correct to this day:

"Shinagawa and colleague Gin Yong Pang, a doctoral candidate in Ethnic Studies at UC-Berkeley, have coined their own term, "hiergamy," to explain intermarriage patterns, including the tendency of Asian-American women to marry white men. Hiergamy, says Shinagawa, holds that in marriage, people "try to maximize their status opportunities, and their sense of wholeness, in the context of a society that's stratified by race, class and gender."

That's a mouthful, but it works like this: Given a choice between Asian men - who have some economic clout but less social status - and educated white men - who have economic clout and social status, as well as the more liberal attitudes social acceptance can bring - many Asian women would choose the latter. The concept also explains why many white men marry Asian women, Shinagawa says: "They are bright, educated and articulate women, but in the racial fantasies of white men they have always been portrayed as submissive, domestic and sexy - qualities they think white women have abandoned for feminism." White men, in other words, are trading a little public status for some private happiness, a reasonable compromise under hiergamy."

I have white friends who only go for asian chicks because they find white chicks messed up, feminist or just can't meet the standards of a decent white chick. So an asian chick who wants white bf, will have lower standards and a white guy can pick up an asian chick who would otherwise be out of his league.

Conversely I know lots of asian chicks who want white guys cuz it lifts their social status for assimilation into a white-dominated society (by media/advertisement terms) and also because of the notion that asian men treat women like doormats.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2008, 08:22 AM
Nordic's Avatar
Nordic status is: hmm
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: w. Ratbert, Toronto
Gender: Female
Relationship Status: Taken
AL Buck$: 53,619
Posts: 10,426
Friends: (65)
Nominated 4 Times in 4 Posts
Nominated TOTW Award(s): 2
Thanks: 171
Thanked 72 Times in 53 Posts
Rep Power: 5601
Nordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond reputeNordic has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by creamofcow View Post
Wrong forum, mang.
Yep.
__________________




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin


Honey-bunnyyyy...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2008, 10:49 AM
bobbyFcuzin's Avatar
bobbyFcuzin surfing AZNLover.com
Lover Extraordinaire
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: nyc
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 8,084
Posts: 416
Friends: (1)
Nominated 1 Time in 1 Post
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 40
bobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura aboutbobbyFcuzin has a spectacular aura about
you can tell this article is outdated when asian girls are surprised that a lot of white guys are into them
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2008, 01:59 PM
Chaoslight's Avatar
Chaoslight status is: wanting to pass out.
The Perfect Lover
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Loveland, OH, USA
Gender: Female
Relationship Status: Single
AL Buck$: 8,784
Posts: 734
Friends: (13)
Nominated 4 Times in 1 Post
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 15
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Chaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of lightChaoslight is a glorious beacon of light
Here's one that's a little more updated

Quote:
Racial preferences in the dating world

By Steve Penner
pennerst@hotmail.com
May 11, 2007 7:32 AM

One of the more delicate areas I dealt with while running a dating service for more than two decades was the issue of race, and more specifically racial stereotyping by prospective members.

Stereotyping in itself is a volatile issue, and at some point during intake interviews, I often repeated the phrase “While there is some truth to all stereotypes, there are certainly many exceptions to every single one.”

However, when one is dealing with a sample of more than 20,000 single, divorced, and widowed men and women, I feel confident and comfortable making certain statements in a column titled The Truth about Dating.

Yet I was still hesitant to write this column, until a reader sent me an article from The New York Times, in which the author, John Tierney, published a story about racial preferences in the dating world.

Moreover, the article cited a study titled Racial Preferences in Dating that documented the preferences of more than 400 participants in speed dating sessions at Columbia University. A quick reading of both the Times article and the Columbia study seemed to support my own anecdotal findings.

(Unfortunately while reading the Columbia study I was overcome by the academic verbiage that authors of such studies feel compelled to use. Do they teach “Boring Writing 101” at Ivy League institutions of higher learning? I found it impossible to read more than a few pages without getting a headache. Here is a sample sentence: “Rates of inter-racial marriages thus capture both preferences and socio-geographic segregation.” Huh?)

Anyway, here is what I found in 23 years of interviewing singles, and I will attempt to communicate in my best “non-academic” language. When we interviewed prospective members, we always asked what their preferences were in terms of meeting people of different races.

Overall, women of most races preferred to meet men of their own race. Most Caucasian women wanted only to meet Caucasian men, the exceptions being women who were more educated and well-traveled, who considered themselves somewhat “worldly.”

Of all the races, African-American women were the most insistent about wanting to meet only African-American men. But most of those women excluded black men who had recently moved to New England from Africa or the Caribbean.

The one major exception to the finding that women wanted to meet men of their own race was Asian women, a vast majority of whom stated that they strongly preferred meeting non-Asian men.

The primary explanation offered by most Asian women was that they wanted to be matched with tall men, and they insisted that practically all of the Asian men they knew were short. But when I would ask if they would be willing to meet an Asian man if he were tall, most would simply shake their head and say they would rather not.

And what about Indian women? To be honest the sample of Indian women who joined my dating service more than 23 years was too small to determine any general statements about them.

As for men, overall they were far more open to meeting women of other races. In fact, and I find this especially interesting, the race of women most in demand were, you guessed it, Asian women. Therefore, almost all of the Asian women in my dating service had a very high Dating Quotient.

When I asked men to explain their preferences for Asian women, many shrugged and admitted they were just extremely attracted to them. But I also believe that many of these men, consciously or subconsciously, wanted to meet women who fit the stereotype of the submissive “Geisha girl,” whose primary purpose is to entertain and please men.

Interestingly enough, though, most of the Asian women we interviewed could not have had personalities more opposite than that passive stereotype. Many had Ph.Ds., M.D.s, or law degrees, and were extremely assertive. (Especially when I tried in vain to persuade them to consider meeting Asian men!)

Unfortunately for African-American women, most of the African-American men who joined stated a strong preference for meeting either white or Asian women. Many expressed the identical view, “I don’t have to join a dating service to meet women of my own race.”

The two groups of men who were the most difficult to match (and therefore had the lowest DQ) were Asian men and Indian men. Like African men, this was especially true of Asian and Indian men who had grown up overseas and relocated to New England, usually to pursue careers either in computer science or medicine. In a few cases I could persuade women to meet men of different races, IF the men were totally “Americanized.”

Of course Asian men were difficult to match because, as I previously stated, the one group of women who did not want to meet men of their own race was Asian women.

As for Indian men, they were the hardest people to match of any group of men or women of any race. And, with so many Indian men moving into the Boston area for jobs in high tech, rarely a week passed without several inquiries from men from India or Pakistan.

One reason they were difficult to match is that only a handful of Indian women joined over the decades, compared to hundreds of Indian or Pakistani men. But another is that many women, even the self-described “worldly” ones, expressed the stereotypical belief that Indian men had antiquated views of women.

To some extent, these women were correct. For example, of all the men I spoke with who wanted to meet women much younger than themselves, the largest group was, in fact, Indian men. Many told me that it was quite common back “home” for men to date and marry women at least a decade younger than themselves. And they wondered why they could not do the same here … which further lowered their DQ.

So that is the story from my own anecdotal experiences. Again, I am sure there are exceptions to every statement I made in this column. On the other hand, if you want “scientific” proof of what I am stating, just Google and download a copy of Columbia University’s Racial Preferences in Dating study.

But I suggest that if you do, make sure you have a bottle of aspirin nearby.
The age of it can really be seen in the original because the women are surprised. However, I think that things have changed a little, though not on the beneficial side for anyone. As this article preceding my comment shows, women generally want to date their own race, except for Asian women, whereas men are more open to dating other races. Black men, on the other hand, prefer to date white or Asian women if they go to a dating service, and the Indian men are just screwed, as are any African men who are not "Americanized."

It's really a shame, and personally, I think maybe that some of the problem with women who are unwilling to date other races is a blend of intimidation, fear of the unknown, and possibly, insultingly, seeing a race as "below" them. Just as Asian women likely often date white men because they see them as somehow "superior" to Asian men, women of other races don't view races outside of their own as acceptable mates. I don't know, but it's really sad, there's a fine line between preferences and outright racism.
__________________
[CENTER]True power; the divine right to rule? Is something you're born with.[/CENTER]

[CENTER]I'm not gay; you're just threatened by my superiority. [/CENTER][RIGHT]- my brother, talking with me on how men oft view formal wear[/RIGHT] [RIGHT]as a "grin-and-bear-it" ordeal, when he does not.[/RIGHT][CENTER][SIGPIC][/SIGPIC][/CENTER]
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2008, 09:10 PM
ratbert1009ca's Avatar
ratbert1009ca surfing AZNLover.com
AZNLover.com Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Toronto
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 7,312
Posts: 7,696
Friends: (50)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 68
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 1853
ratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond reputeratbert1009ca has a reputation beyond repute
thanks chaos... i mean its nice to read about the state of AM/XF relations but people gotta stop dragging up 20 year old articles. Its irrelevant to the current situation.
__________________

Nordic-kulta, Pidän sinusta oikein paljon. Kiinalaisten ja suomalaisten lapsista tulee kauniita!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2008, 06:26 PM
goodone777's Avatar
goodone777 surfing AZNLover.com
The Perfect Lover
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: OC & LA
Gender: Male
Relationship Status: Single
AL Buck$: 11,383
Posts: 772
Friends: (21)
Nominated 1 Time in 1 Post
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 0
Thanked 12 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 89
goodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nicegoodone777 is just really nice
XF dating

I found this quote really interesting:

"I get some breaks from Asian women. Their standards are lower," he says matter-of-factly. "It's a Darwinistic world, dating-wise, and I have an inferiority complex with white women. Most of them have a big chip on their shoulders, and I don't care how liberated they say they are, they're not interested in someone who doesn't make much money. I eventually realized that being white, I could make it with an Asian woman who's more physically attractive than I am, just because she's got a cultural inferiority complex."

... WOW!


Anyways..I think its getting better for AM.. I went on a date with a WF in Berkeley and walked around. We ended up eating at a Greek Restaurant. When I looked around I started seeing a bunch of AM/XF couples in the restaurant. THEN, when we walked around and went to the bar. Even more. I was surprised.
__________________
Do or do not, there is no try.
- Yoda
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:52 AM
3DSumoWrestler's Avatar
3DSumoWrestler status is: distracted by the internet
Lover
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: San Diego, CA, USA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 4,527
Posts: 153
Friends: (8)
Nominated 0 Times in 0 Posts
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough3DSumoWrestler will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ratbert1009ca View Post
thanks chaos... i mean its nice to read about the state of AM/XF relations but people gotta stop dragging up 20 year old articles. Its irrelevant to the current situation.
Oh, I don't know. I think it's perfectly relevant. It's the whole reason he brought it back -- to find out from everyone if they think anything's changed.

I think a lot of that article still holds true, perhaps to a lesser degree. I think people are far more sophisticated about the idea these days. 20 years later, people seem more aware of these issues. It would be interesting to see some quantifiable numbers on the subject as well as subjective thoughts from folks in the same areas the original article surveyed.

I'm willing to bet there has been a sizable trend toward equilibrium between AM/XF vs AF/XM couples in more progressive US cities such as Seattle, San Francisco, and New York. However, in most other cities, I doubt there has been very much change at all. In San Diego, for example, I don't feel as if there has been any real change in the ratio of AM/XF vs AF/XM couples during the past 10 years. This is purely my own subjective observation, but having lived in both San Diego and Seattle, there is an obvious gap in mentality on the subject of interracial dating given that both cities have very similar diversity.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 09-10-2008, 06:54 AM
zLou's Avatar
zLou surfing AZNLover.com
Asian Lover of the Year
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New Orleans, USA
Gender: Male
AL Buck$: 16,699
Posts: 1,366
Friends: (34)
Nominated 1 Time in 1 Post
TOTW Award(s): 0
Thanks: 2
Thanked 57 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 87
zLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nicezLou is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodone777 View Post
I found this quote really interesting:

"I get some breaks from Asian women. Their standards are lower," he says matter-of-factly. "It's a Darwinistic world, dating-wise, and I have an inferiority complex with white women. Most of them have a big chip on their shoulders, and I don't care how liberated they say they are, they're not interested in someone who doesn't make much money. I eventually realized that being white, I could make it with an Asian woman who's more physically attractive than I am, just because she's got a cultural inferiority complex."

... WOW!


Anyways..I think its getting better for AM.. I went on a date with a WF in Berkeley and walked around. We ended up eating at a Greek Restaurant. When I looked around I started seeing a bunch of AM/XF couples in the restaurant. THEN, when we walked around and went to the bar. Even more. I was surprised.

The quote just makes me sick ! However, I am not surprised.

Anyway, I am dating this white girl right now who lives in the Bay Area. When we were walking around, holding hands or whateva, I do notice with my peripheral vision that ppl were looking at us. But I just didn't give a fuck. The fact is, I really like her for what she is and I just treat her like any other girl I date. I don't understand why ppl still give a f about race.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:22 PM.
 

AZNLover.com Sites of Interest


1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53